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Chroniques de Chant-de-Fer  |  English Guest Room  |  Other Topics in relation with Tolkien and Dwarves  |  Fil de discussion: History of the Hobbit, by MR John D. Rateliff. « sujet précédent | | sujet suivant »
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Auteur Fil de discussion: History of the Hobbit, by MR John D. Rateliff.  (Lu 1113 fois)
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« le: 27 Décembre 2006, 14:11:50 »

More information about Mr John D. Rateliff' book on this page  from Tolkien Library's website . Note : this book will be published in 2 volumes.

The History of The Hobbit: Mr. Baggins (8 mai 2007) :


Et The History of The Hobbit: Return to Bag-End ( 4 juin 2007) :


Can we find some news clues or tricks about Tolkien's dwarves and their origin in this book ?
>I don't know for the moment Clin d'oeil

Is this book a sort of new and improved Douglas A. Anderson's "Annotated Hobbit" ?

Does Mr Rateliff speaks more about the norses elements of comparison than the others writers before him ?
(Beorn and Hrolfr Kraka Saga's Bjarki son of Björn, Warg, names and places like Mirkwood, Middle Earth, even Gandalf and Odhin, named swords, runes of magic Huh)

Does these two books are considering the timeline schedule of the writing of the Hobbit, by Pr. Tolkien, the beginning time (1930-31 ??), how long, or chapters in which years Huh

Who knows Clin d'oeil
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« Répondre #1 le: 29 Décembre 2006, 12:24:30 »

Mr Rateliff by email Clin d'oeil

Citation
Can we find some news clues or tricks about Tolkien's dwarves and their origin in this book ?

I'm afraid the manuscript of THE HOBBIT has no new information on the origins of the dwarves, though I do briefly discuss the dwarven afterlife as presented in THE HOBBIT contrasted with that from the earlier HME writings. I also point out how remarkable it is that it's a party of dwarves who show up on Bilbo's doorstep, since dwarves had always been presented as an evil people in Tolkien's works before that moment.


Is this book a sort of new and improved Douglas A. Anderson's "Annotated Hobbit" ?


Not really; they're quite different, though complementary. Doug's book takes the first printing as its starting point and works forward, documenting every change Tolkien made to the book since publication. By contrast, I start with the manuscript and bring the story up to the point of publication. So they're bookends. My commentary is also much more extensive, since my format is different (the commentary in an annotated book needs to be kept relatively brief and focused). Frankly, I assume anyone who wants to read my book already owns THE ANNOTATED HOBBIT, and I make reference to it continually.


Does Mr Rateliff speaks more about the norses elements of comparison than the others writers before him ? (Beorn and Hrolfr Kraka Saga's Bjarki son of Björn, Warg, names and places like Mirkwood, Middle Earth, even Gandalf and Odhin, named swords, runes of magic Huh)


I certainly go into Mirkwood's twin antecedents in medieval legend and within Tolkien's own work, and do the same with Medwed/Beorn, comparing him to both Bothvar Bjarki and the North Polar Bear (with, I think, a passing mention of "Sellic Spell"). As for Gandalf, remember that this is a dwarf-name throughout most of the manuscript; the character was not renamed "Thorin" until he emerged from the barrel at Lake Town, and the name "Gandalf" was not assigned to the wizard (replacing Bladorthin) until after Bilbo's party had reached the Mountain.


Do these two books are considering the timeline schedule of the writing of the Hobbit, by Pr. Tolkien, the beginning time (1930-31 ??), how long, or chapters in which years Huh


Yes, one of the earliest parts I worked out was an essay on "The Chronology of Composition", in which I show that the evidence is v. good that Tolkien began the book in the summer of 1930 and wrote the final chapters in either December 1932 or, more likely, January 1933. By the way, the idea (suggested by Carpenter) that JRRT left the book unfinished and only wrote the final quarter years later is almost certainly not the case. Unfortunately there's been great confusion, even in the best accounts, of just when Tolkien wrote what on THE HOBBIT, and I hope I've been able to clarify things somewhat.


I hope this helps. Thanks for sharing the link; I hope the book, when it's released, meets yr expectations.

--John R.

Thank's a lot Mr Rateliff for answering us Clin d'oeil
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« Répondre #2 le: 29 Décembre 2006, 16:32:02 »

I'll love to speak more about "the dwarven afterlife " you've speak in your answering, because here on our website we have made a lot of work which deals with mortality and the life after death of the Tolkien's Dwarves ... including (off course) a comparison with the northern dwarves and the death and draug they seem to be in the northern myths.

I want to say also that in a recent email you've speak to me of two very unknowned dwarfs-names (including one with a nickname very interesting ...) which are disapearing in the process of creation of the Hobbit. Are you founded these two dwarfs-names only on the manuscripts present on the Memorial Bibliotheque in University of Marquette ((Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA)  ?

In fact I can easily conclude for the moment that I will ask these two books for my future birthday in june 2007 Clin d'oeil
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« Répondre #3 le: 03 Janvier 2007, 11:30:49 »

Anybody to ask some other questions to Mr Rateliff here ?
Are you shy my fellows or what ?
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« Répondre #4 le: 04 Janvier 2007, 15:22:00 »

Briefly (as usual for the moment  Triste ) : when I hear one of the new dwarf-name, Fimbul-fambi, it seems to me as if it was a kuduk name, like Brandagamba (Brandybuck) or other, don't you ?

And what about the relation with the orc-name Golfimbul ?
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i]C'est parce que la vitesse de la lumière est plus rapide que celle du son, que bien des gens paraissent brillants avant de passer pour des c....[/i]
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« Répondre #5 le: 09 Janvier 2007, 17:26:56 »

Why Mr Cyrus you haven't pass by the 'enklums''s topics  before asking this question ?

Fimbulfambi exist in the Hávamál text and it means probably 'mighty fool' (french, idiot énorme) . For me as the other dwarf-names found in The Hobbit, they are all Old Norse genuine.

But you're right about Gol-fimbul (fimbul means mighty and is probably norse related too ...)
Even if Pr. Tolkien associated Golfimbul with Golf in the first chapter of [The Hobbit (Why not 'Mighty golfed' as was the Head of the king of Orcs by Bullroarer Took ??).

but in fact Old Norse göll means 'din' and so ... can we understand Golfimbul perhaps as great din (French, grand vacarme) Huh
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« Répondre #6 le: 07 Avril 2007, 11:29:09 »

New interview of Mr Rateliff here:
http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/history_of_the_hobbit.php
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Stéphane Grignon <Anglin>
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« Répondre #7 le: 27 Mai 2007, 22:03:44 »

I've just sale an email to Mr Rateliff about Radagast's name and his possible relation with :
rádgask, að, dep.; r. við e-n, to consult, Bs. i. 815,Stj.476
rád-gáta, u, f. a riddle, 1 Cor. xiii, 12
Cleasby-Vigfusson p.487.

ráðgast (að), v. refl. to take counsel.
Zoëga p.332
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Chroniques de Chant-de-Fer  |  English Guest Room  |  Other Topics in relation with Tolkien and Dwarves  |  Fil de discussion: History of the Hobbit, by MR John D. Rateliff. « sujet précédent | | sujet suivant »
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